If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. I just dont see the Blessed Mother doing this. Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them. He is succeeding in making people such as yourself to turn away from the Church and convincing you all that YOU are the faithful ones! In the meantime I really cannot understand how this ministry that promotes. We have no affiliation with the Diocese of Cleveland. God bless. attitude. All grace flows through Marys Heart because (as was said above) she is the Mediatrix of all graces. God can use all things for good. . Lennon has definitively declared Sweeney-Kyles claims to be not from God. He may hate the rosary but he loves people rejecting Catholic Church authority which is what he is getting out of this deal. If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. From EWTN document PRIVATE REVELATIONS AND DISCERNMENT OF SPIRITS: The objection will be raised: The Church was so slow in approving Fatima, and so people lost so many graces while waiting. Iused to wonder why the devil would have a hand in false apparitions when they inspired so many faithful Catholics to increase their prayer life and devotion to God and the Blessed Mother. Under investigation for what? The Tree is known by it s fruit!Holy Love has grown many, many Great Holy Fruits! He has 5 kids who he cannot interact with unless it is about Holy Love and what he considers the Truth. You are very misinformed if you think that one needs to be under the local ordinary to share the Truth of God. "Before you condemn someone else for a wrongful act, check your behavior and see if you too, have committed an act similar or even worse than the act that person has done. Cover me with the Precious Blood of Your Divine Son. You and those who are bashing the messages of HLM are not exhibiting to me common sense at all. The local bishop is not final word on apparition sites and their approval. Catholic doctrine is Catholic doctrine. But I suspect that if the Bishop had used whatever wording this person thinks are proper for a condemnation, s/he still would refuse to obey him because. Further, no one can or should dictate against Heavens intervention here. Too often, if an alleged apparition is condemned people feel betrayed and give up on God and the Church. There is no self-promotion, pride or profiting. The one place I can go today to be instructed in the depth of the Catholic Faith is Holy Love Ministries. How about this one from St. Thomas Aquinas on Nov. 17, 2009, after the condemnation: The decree set forth by your bishop concerning participation in this Mission here was presented as though it carried with it the charge of blind obedience. I dont claim to be holy and without sin. Some Catholics voted for Obama because their Bishop told them it was all right. Without free will there would be no sin. Those other bishops deserve our correction, for they undermine the authority of their brother bishop, who has spoken definitively. Go and pray there, it is not a sin. -Kevin J. Symonds. ( I know you are anxious to find some error in what I am saying, but get a hold of yourself. St. Ignatius is referring to the Magisterium, which is the definitive authority of the Catholic Church. You said before that you were finished writing to me, but you have not been consistent with what you decided in an earlier post. I foresee a head-exploding coming our way in response to your comment, Harry! No one is bound by obedience to follow a bishops advisement. Ha! This is the man whose discernment about Holy Love ministries you want me to trust? A meeting with Holy Love representatives made it clear that the ministry will not subject themselves to the Catholic Church. Eventually Rome took his authority away and a special commission was given the task of evaluating Medjugorie. As authorDan Burkewarns, we have blind spots when it comes to ourselves. HLM is doing the job that the bishops should be doing, that is teaching the ancient truths and deep theology of the CCC. Lennon opens up with a note on his responsibility as the Ordinary of the place. (See Baglios book for all the stuff they can and cannot do). Ive even thought of going to the Holy Love website and copying/pasting some of the more glaringly ridiculous messages to try to argue it that way, but I see it would be futile. 6/29/93 from Our Lady: Forgive everything and you will not be in error. This is contrary to our faith. Reading te comments of those who responded to your article gives evidence of the very poor understanding of the mystical theology of the Catholic Faith, as well as an unbalanced and distorted comprehension of what the virtue of obedience is, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church. My life is stressful enough without stirring up such pots, I reasoned. I once read that people bring their own holiness to these sites. I am wondering whether bishop Lennon is an orthodox bishop or not. Demons can do a pretty good job of imitating the good and the holy. Let me begin by quoting St. Thomas of Aquinas from the Summa: Obedience is a part of justice, one of the four cardinal virtues, which, are, in turn, subordinate to the theological virtues of Faith, Hope and, Charity. I was made to feel guilty, wrong and afraid for questioning him or HLM. the Church still reserves judgement, as it has not officially condemned HLM. Does it not seem a bit odd that Jesus would be speaking about what he calls the Angel Chip, the dark chip, that Satan is preparing and in the near future, we all will have inserted under the skin, and Satan will then be able to control our minds by it. I guess you have never heard of Joan of Arc, who was condemned by the Chuch authorities. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth (John 16:12-13). I know my Catholic faith. Your explanation proves absolutely nothing of substance. HLM does not encourage disobedience to legitimate Catholic authority. We have no affiliation with the Diocese of Cleveland. And obviously, I am no way biased against mystics and visionariesin fact the entire Mystics of the Church website is in support of them. This latter is considered a false obedience. 3) The faithful in the Diocese of Cleveland are admonished against gathering for functions (presumably held by HLM) on HLM property. You neglect to understandand you really should have understood from your correspondence with those whom you consultedthat danger to the true Faith lurks in a lack of authentic Catholic doctrine,or in Scriptural misinterpretation, not in externals such as rosaries, statues, or vocal prayers. To go to Holy love, see a beautiful statute and maybe be at peace on what to me, is very much holy ground, doesnt mean your believing in Maureen and no longer the church at all. They surely cannot say no credibility can be given about HLM messages, as HLM messages are all the teachings of the Catholic Faith. Any profit from the sale of the Rosary of the unborn is to fund a shelter for unwed mothers. Read: sometimes it could do grave harm to someones reputation. Scripture could not be more clear (Authenticity A Biblical Theology of Discernment by Thomas Dubay, S.M., Ignatius Press 1997). In addition, there are a number of followers in the area where I live who were irritated by my observations. I mention no names. Can you imagine St. Paul telling the people of Corinth that they must do X without the courtesy of explaining why. Hildebrand says,If there are only a few persons who belileve the true Faith, they are the Church. (Catholic Apologetics). Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit Am also not responding to a number that shall go nameless! And what did Padre Pio do when the Bishop ordered him to stop? Disobedience to Church authority is one of the premier hallmarks of a false vision or apparition (there are others such as self-promotion, pride and profitting). September 30, 2021 / a soul. 3221, you are right. What draws me to defend Holy Love Ministries, and which motivates me to write to you, is that I see there full, authentic Catholic doctrineand a depth presentation of that doctrinepromulgated there. Have mercy, Lord, have mercy! the teaching of the Church is that Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces; all graces flow through Her Immaculate Heart. It was a no show for the Blessed Mother. You will become a Pro Life zealot and give up your hobbies to do ministry work for the love of God (not just neighbor). Amen! A non-believer can simply read the older warning messages, dated much before any occurrences, and see for himself. Elizabeth, Our Blessed Mother at HLM had every right to do what she did. In preventing the faithful from going there, he is thwarting the spread of the true Faith in an age where there are few places to get it. Finally, you assume that since God has never done before what He is doing at HLM, it is proof that he would not do it ever. I know my Catholic Faith well in all its purity, its beauty, and its authentic mystical depth. May we have the citation for that quote from St. Catherine of Siena please? Oh my. Apparitions at Holy Love Ministries Revisited. Holy Love Ministries has maintained a period of silence, and now we feel it is time to defend the truth. In his decree of November 11, 2009 Bishop Lennon made it clear that because of a number of issues it was necessary to forbid priests to celebrate the sacraments at the site of the Holy Love shrine and that the faithful are admonished to cease gathering there. The treasure of Holy Love Ministries is that it is teaching the fullness of the Catholic Faith and the depth mystical theology that underpins it. This IS the teaching of the Catholic Church. A trip to the confessional is not a bad thing either. Any Catholic who gives their primary attention to alleged private revelation at the expense of Sacred Scripture, the teaching of the Church (especially the Catechism), sacramental practice, prayer and fidelity to Church authority is off course., He warned, The running after spiritual phenomena, such as alleged revelations, is condemned by St. John of the Cross as spiritual avarice. You want transparency? if there is no sin and redemption we realize the evil one knowns we dont need a holy church or a ine world church where anything goes like in pagan roman and greek times past or are they ??? The devil can be there, too. You are too nice, LizEst. In 2005 an article in The Plain Dealer newspaper of Cleveland, OH reported on this ministry and its many suspicious claims: The ministry was formed around 1986, meeting in homes of followers or a few welcoming churches. You seem, LizEst, to have trouble with figures of speech. It couldve meant anything or nothing. And, thank you, denis. The difference in wording is salient. In the case someone wishes to continue with the red-herring that is the admonishing vs. forbidding argument, consider carefully the canons that Bishop Lennon cites in that clause of the Decree. A quick glance through the more recent messages provide several excellent examples on the question of authority and the fact that Jesus or Mary would never, ever, ask for you all to be disobedient to His Church. Those at Holy Love Ministries have openly rejected it. Hope that helps. Im truly curious how far this would go for you. There are four chambers in the human heart. This is putting his ecclesiatical power before the spread of the Gospel. He/She obviously doesnt get the point. You spoke earlier of no proof that Bishop Lennon is heretical. Gay couples cant get married in church. Find what you read and tell me, okay? Bishops have upheld heresy. There is nothing in the 1983 Code of Canon Law that specifies such a process in these affairs (though the Code affects them). Amen." HLM says it isnt a Catholic organization. The message here is so simple love God and neighbor as yourself.i thank God he gives us all our free will and pray from the bottom of my heart for wisdom and heavenly discernment for all. My point was that 3221 is throwing things out as fact, without confirming and verifying such. You may enjoy this one: http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/. So which bishop is correct? His pattern of lying is well-documented since the Boston homosexual scandal of which he played a central part. We should always be disposed to believe that that which appears white is really black, if the hierarchy of the Church so decides. St. Its what the evil one does mixing truths and half-truths with false messages. He states that Catholics can never compromise Faith under the pretext of obedience. How does one fight with that kind of delusion? I wish to look at the facts of HLMs case in syllogistic fashion. No wonder the world,particularly the USA is in such a mess-morally and spiritually. No need to write in Spanish but if you want to practice its OK. :o) I have lived in the US for a long timecurrently I am in Argentina for a whileI was received in the Church in the UK so my general Catholic sense is a bit English which is good. You would be an excellent addition. That is why we have the Church, so that what looks good on the surface doesnt lead us astray. This is simply how I personally would react to your hypothetical question of whether or not Id obey a Bishop who told me that the Blessed Sacrament is only truly our Lord during the Mass, and outside the Mass it can be disregarded. When we use our free will to do as God asks us , it is called cooperating with grace. But thats neither here nor there. I begin to see much more clearly the pernicious vice that has heretofore arisen in this discussion. Here is a clear example of your biased opinion interpreting what HLM is saying. The remnant are those who adhere to the Holy Eucharist, adoration, the Magisterium, the rosary. Do not let anyone take away your free will choices.. At the age of 14, my father took me to see Maureen and to receive a personal message. How many are involved with Masonic lodges? Consider the options the devil has available to trap faithful Catholics? The Bishops subjects (you and me) are bound to obey him within the sphere of his authority. Are you actually claiming that the Bishop of his diocese has no authority to declare whether a place is operating within the Catholic faith? 3221, have you actually studied the Churchs theology of private revelation? Good grief ~ are you kidding me? Lest this get buried below, here is my response to 3221 re the condemnation of the Bayside events. When the Church wants to speak definitely, she does so. If he himself is not addressing these issues, it would go a long way to explain his aversion to HLM. Never was a true visionary told he or she did not have to obey Catholic authority. 2) Clergy are forbidden to celebrate the Sacraments on HLM grounds. Please read the few quotes of some recent messages from HL in my post just before Kevins recent post. Rather, it has brought out the apparition mockers full force. [I marvel at the protection of the (created and uncreated) Immaculate Conception!]. What she meant was, any action, however small, united with Jesus and offered to His Father, has redemptive value. Wouldnt you think these are the blessed fruits of a true apparition? Rosary for the Unborn - Holy Love Ministry Messages by Topic We become obedient to the Church and Her officials only when we become obedient to the constant teachings of the Church, as taught by the Magisterium through the ages. 3. Souls are lost because we do not pray for them, we do not offer ourselves in union with Jesus so that we can through our union with Jesus win the grace these souls need to turn to God. After accomplishing the safe return home of her students, and after buying an acre of land near the Chapel to build a home to continue her commissioned duty to Our Lady, Sister Adele obeyed the Bishops command. OBEYED THE BISHOPS COMMAND. He cannot act in us unless we give Him our free will choice to do so. Did they suffer from mental illness and imagine it all? Bishop Zanec of Medjugorie fame, warned (read admonished) the laity about going to that apparition site. Heres one from St. Catherine of Sienna on Nov. 18, 2009: Do not be fooled to believe you are not allowed to come. God bless you denis. Lest I be accused of quoting Thomas of Aquinas from the messages of Holy Love, let me assure you that I used only his words and ideas from his great work the Summa theologica. May they rest in peace. The condescending judgments made by those in this correspondence who deride HLM are very pronounced. HLM gives a clear delineation of the truths of the Catholic Faith. 1) S/he doesnt believe that the Bishop actually has condemned the site, therefore. You are unwise to condemn what you do not fully understand nor grasp. You cited no decree, no Pope, no Church source. Evidently there is fuller need to elaborate further, Kevin. @LizEst and Kevin: Ive been sitting back and just reading your comments and the replies of 3221. Way of the Cross Meditations - Holy Love Ministry Messages by Topic You also are so obsessed with Church law that you are missing what the Church is suffering.. Again, I learned this from Aquinas, The Church is where the true Faith is. These Messages are like food for the soul. Is that what you wold do, Elizabeth? Merry Christmas to all. Its irrelevant to this topic the state of the Church these days. I am not digging for dirt. She replied I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, but I cannot deny my voices. Was she disobedient? My argument did not win him over. Did she have one?That is the only way, plus obedience to the Church . Stay away so you not fall into a deep personal devotion and love for Blessed Mother and and the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Satan will disguise himself as an angel of light-perhaps from scripture? Lots of praise from Jesus and the Blessed Mother is heaped on those who attend Holy Love as being the remnant faithful, the special ones, fighting the good fight against the wicked Church, priests and bishops in these dark times. Third, conviction is hopeful. People are making excuses, ignoring abnormalities and rejecting Church teaching and authority. I do believe the current administration is a judgment of sorts on us. Will you be seeking an Imprimatur and a Nihil obstat? Ive not read any recent posts about it anywhere since shortly after the Bishops condemnation of the place. He even denies that the faithful have a duty of automatic obedience in the present state of the Church. Faith is greater than obedience. In regards to judging authenticity when it comes to mystics and visionaries, obedience is the litmus test of the Church. I just looked up in Aquinas Summa Theologica about obedience to bishops. I just got those beads myself. The Church is very clear in her language and Bishop Lennon went as far as he could go without being out of line canonically. I look only into the heart. Not once did she mention the messages. The bishops office of the diocese of Cleveland cautions anyone considering donations to the center. She asked little Jacinta at Fatima, Do you want to HELP ME save sinners? Will this make you feel okay about it.? If it did not, I would return home and continue to practice my faith. I received a booklet with them and that is when i saw these so called messages. Mary you are so mixed up. Thats even funnier! It is offensive. Thomas T. is my father. I am curious to know where Bishop Lennon stands on defending our treasured Faith. To join, go here: http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/06/10/spiritual-direction-book-club-how-do-i-join-it%29, And, to look at the first post which gives the reading assignment, go here: http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12630. And so we should never agree to wearing this Angel Chip. God bless you, Liz! Tell me, is this good and normal? Holy Love is to form the New Jerusalem, so whether or not it is Catholic is irrelevant. Our Mother is not asking us to condone sin by saying forgive everything. Doctrinal fidelity as a mark of authenticity is sometimes an obvious sign, sometimes not so obvious. A sign of true love for GOD is bearing long-lasting fruits and living orthodox, obedient lives respectful to all, especially those in authority. I now know to actively discern these things and what to look for. Now, some-, the things commanded by a Superior are against God. Why such a fervor over something no one is asking you to believe? Because it was personal though, I translated it into my already laid out plan for my life. Correct, and succinct. Here is the quote I have come to explain to you the Sixth Chamber. As the pastor of the Diocese of Cleveland his oversight certainly includes what is identified as ecumenical in that the faithful of the diocese cannot be encouraged or permitted to participate in any group or organization whose beliefs or practices contradict the teachings of the Church in faith and morals. Nobody claims to be gods here. Thanks for your clear, straight-to-the-point comment. People have been going to thisplace since the early 1990s, drawn by founder Maureen Sweeney-Kyles claim that Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary and a host of saints are appearing to her with messages.
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